I don't believe in it.

I think humans are just so into themselves that they can't accept that our conciousness is a random compelation if electric pulses in our own heads. When that stops, we die and our conciousness goes with it. But from the time we a babies in the womb till the day we die, we are all we really know and have for certain. And even some people don't really know themselves.

It's a comfort to imagine that this isn't all we have, just like God is a comfort. Like your parents telling you tales of faeries that protect you from monsters under the bed, religion tells us that God has a plan and is protecting you from randomness and uncertainty.

Not that it's not a good thing that most people think this way. For the most part people who believe that there is an afterlife are kind to others in this life in holes of a better afterlife. For that I am greatful, although I wish that it didn't have to be that way and others could be kind for the sake of being kind alone.

However, you can never be certain. So I always say a prayer if someone dies or I see roadkill on the street, et cetera. Because had they been religious, whatever religion that may be, they probably would have wanted someone to say a prayer for them.

I may not believe in religion or prayer, but I respect other's need for it.

That is all you know. And yet you threw around a whole bunch of accusations at me.

I resented that. I'm sorry for calling you names, but I felt attacked by nonsense. It infuriates me to have to waste my time knowing I'm not going to change my mind, and you're not going to change your mind. So why the fuck don't we both shut up?

Obviously.

But you've insulted me quite a lot. I've been having to defend my opinion with facts, while you with opinions and I resent your intollerance. You insulted my opinion based on a bullshit websites and no actual knowledge of situations at organic free range farms. When I grew up on one and worked for years to stop factory farming. So bascally all you have is your opinion which you used to label me as a user and as a whole bunch of nasty things.

That is certainly not what you've been saying.

When I said, "If your opinion differs, that's fine. But I love and respect animals."

You said, "That's just a difference of opinions.

I am an abolitionist. I am against the use of animals, both human and non-human. I campaign for equal rights and compassion for all sentient creatures. That's how I'm different."

Thinking you're all holier than thou. Shove it.

Well the point is that difference in opinion is what this debate is about.

So really we could both just take our own opinions and shoove them. Because yours doesn't matter to me, and mine doesn't matter to you. So I think were done.

Right back at you.

I have my opinions, which you refused to accept or even entertain. You just have this ideal that life should be painless for all animals. That's not life.

What I stated to begin with was an opinion. I've made my life decisions based on a lot of experience and with a deep respect for and love of animals. I hope you can understand that I live in reality and you live in your own.

Duuuuhhhhhuuuhhhh!

That's why I specified local beekeepers, known as hobbyists. Commercial beekeeping is essentially factory farming. I have done nothing but denounce factory farming.

Who do you think the biggest opponents of commercial beekeping are? It's the hobbyists.

Also, I didn't say we should eat meat all the time and as much as we do. I've already stated it should be a side dish. If we reduced the intake of meat, we could support the entire world on a omnivore diet.

I don't advocate 5lb stakes with a side of stake. Just like a salad with two tablespoons of tuna made with hummus. Or a stir friend veggie plate and a half a breast of chicken. We eat too much meat for our own good right now, yes. But that doesn't mean we have to.

We should kill more than we can eat, but we shouldn't be stuffing it in our mouths either.

Animals were here before us. They weren't "given" to us.

But those eggs that are unfertilized then go to waste.

Bees produce honey to feed off of during the winter. But they make much much more than they will ever need. They are also having a rough time right now, with everything that contributes to CCD. Because of hobbyist beekeepers honey bee populations are stabilizing on the west coast. And they are also placed in places that pollinate their environment so that plants can thrive too.

And while cows don't mind being milked, they might mind being mechanically raped to become impregnated so they'll begin to produce milk, then having their babies taken from them to go their separate ways (if they're female, they'll have the same fate as their mother; if they're male, they're turned into veal), then being hooked up to machines that cut their udders and fill the milk with blood and pus. And, actually, the US allows more pus in milk than any other nation, I believe.

That's factory farming, again. And organic, free range farming isn't bullshit. Cows don't have to be raped to get pregnant. They can also be milked by hand, and that's the kind of milking I was talking about.

And even in organic farms, yeah, we eat the males. It's for the good of the heard.

Animals, human and non-human, do not exist to serve others.

That sounds pretty selfish. We serve the animals. We care for calves abandoned by their mothers. We treat their wounds and illnesses. We find food for them in drought or flood. It sounds like you underestimate the value of teamwork.

Think of it as mutual earthling support.