I don't believe in it.

I think humans are just so into themselves that they can't accept that our conciousness is a random compelation if electric pulses in our own heads. When that stops, we die and our conciousness goes with it. But from the time we a babies in the womb till the day we die, we are all we really know and have for certain. And even some people don't really know themselves.

It's a comfort to imagine that this isn't all we have, just like God is a comfort. Like your parents telling you tales of faeries that protect you from monsters under the bed, religion tells us that God has a plan and is protecting you from randomness and uncertainty.

Not that it's not a good thing that most people think this way. For the most part people who believe that there is an afterlife are kind to others in this life in holes of a better afterlife. For that I am greatful, although I wish that it didn't have to be that way and others could be kind for the sake of being kind alone.

However, you can never be certain. So I always say a prayer if someone dies or I see roadkill on the street, et cetera. Because had they been religious, whatever religion that may be, they probably would have wanted someone to say a prayer for them.

I may not believe in religion or prayer, but I respect other's need for it.

That is all you know. And yet you threw around a whole bunch of accusations at me.

I resented that. I'm sorry for calling you names, but I felt attacked by nonsense. It infuriates me to have to waste my time knowing I'm not going to change my mind, and you're not going to change your mind. So why the fuck don't we both shut up?

Obviously.

But you've insulted me quite a lot. I've been having to defend my opinion with facts, while you with opinions and I resent your intollerance. You insulted my opinion based on a bullshit websites and no actual knowledge of situations at organic free range farms. When I grew up on one and worked for years to stop factory farming. So bascally all you have is your opinion which you used to label me as a user and as a whole bunch of nasty things.

That is certainly not what you've been saying.

When I said, "If your opinion differs, that's fine. But I love and respect animals."

You said, "That's just a difference of opinions.

I am an abolitionist. I am against the use of animals, both human and non-human. I campaign for equal rights and compassion for all sentient creatures. That's how I'm different."

Thinking you're all holier than thou. Shove it.

Well the point is that difference in opinion is what this debate is about.

So really we could both just take our own opinions and shoove them. Because yours doesn't matter to me, and mine doesn't matter to you. So I think were done.

Right back at you.

I have my opinions, which you refused to accept or even entertain. You just have this ideal that life should be painless for all animals. That's not life.

What I stated to begin with was an opinion. I've made my life decisions based on a lot of experience and with a deep respect for and love of animals. I hope you can understand that I live in reality and you live in your own.

Duuuuhhhhhuuuhhhh!

That's why I specified local beekeepers, known as hobbyists. Commercial beekeeping is essentially factory farming. I have done nothing but denounce factory farming.

Who do you think the biggest opponents of commercial beekeping are? It's the hobbyists.

Also, I didn't say we should eat meat all the time and as much as we do. I've already stated it should be a side dish. If we reduced the intake of meat, we could support the entire world on a omnivore diet.

I don't advocate 5lb stakes with a side of stake. Just like a salad with two tablespoons of tuna made with hummus. Or a stir friend veggie plate and a half a breast of chicken. We eat too much meat for our own good right now, yes. But that doesn't mean we have to.

We should kill more than we can eat, but we shouldn't be stuffing it in our mouths either.

Animals were here before us. They weren't "given" to us.

But those eggs that are unfertilized then go to waste.

Bees produce honey to feed off of during the winter. But they make much much more than they will ever need. They are also having a rough time right now, with everything that contributes to CCD. Because of hobbyist beekeepers honey bee populations are stabilizing on the west coast. And they are also placed in places that pollinate their environment so that plants can thrive too.

And while cows don't mind being milked, they might mind being mechanically raped to become impregnated so they'll begin to produce milk, then having their babies taken from them to go their separate ways (if they're female, they'll have the same fate as their mother; if they're male, they're turned into veal), then being hooked up to machines that cut their udders and fill the milk with blood and pus. And, actually, the US allows more pus in milk than any other nation, I believe.

That's factory farming, again. And organic, free range farming isn't bullshit. Cows don't have to be raped to get pregnant. They can also be milked by hand, and that's the kind of milking I was talking about.

And even in organic farms, yeah, we eat the males. It's for the good of the heard.

Animals, human and non-human, do not exist to serve others.

That sounds pretty selfish. We serve the animals. We care for calves abandoned by their mothers. We treat their wounds and illnesses. We find food for them in drought or flood. It sounds like you underestimate the value of teamwork.

Think of it as mutual earthling support.

Well la de freakin' da.

Why not eat unfertilized eggs? Why not eat local honey that is grown by respectful and careful beekeepers who take care of their hives?

PS. Cows don't mind being milked.

I already agreed with you on the factory farming issues and how animals are treated.

Do you drink milk? Or eat eggs?

Net fishing on the bottom can cause those kinds of problems. So eat Tuna. It's caught with mid level nets which don't do much damage. They're also not terribly endangered. Of course if everyone ate just tuna, they would be. But that's what diversity and choice is about.

Commercial fish farming is nothing like schools of fish. Nothing.

How so? Have you ever been to a commercial fish farm? Because that's almostexactly how it is. Sure, farmed fish don't swim as far as ocean or river fish, but I doubt they are uncomfortable. Yes, fish feel pain. But they're also stupid (in the scientific sense).

Think of the Africans who still live in small villages, and have never heard of cars or air conditioning. They're plenty happy. But you put some bitch from Malibu out there, and she's miserable. Fish are the bush people, we're the bitch from Malibu. (I'm not saying that the Africans are stupid, just "uneducated" by modern terms).

Can't you accept that my opinion is not wrong? That it's my opinion? Why does that make me delusional, or misled?

Right back at ya. You can have your opinion, and there is nothing wrong with being a vegetarian. If we were all vegetarians the environment would be better off. But there are also environmentally responsible ways to eat small portions of meat. And as omnivores we can decide for ourselves to eat meat or not.

The delusional part is that you believed that website about the free range farming. Which is a pile of bullshit, in my educated opinion. And also the part about "equality and peace and happiness." Death is part of life, and so is eating.

Most fish aren't caught on hooks, but in nets. And a quick smack to the brain does the trick. And regarding fish farming, they are just as overcrowded as they would be in a school of fish. It's how they swim... I doubt the fish mind.

You may accept being delusional, but just be careful about who you believe.... You'll figure it out someday.

Well no. Because if I'm already dead, you wouldn't be murdering me. You wouldn't be ending my life.

I suppose you could just pick up roadkill and eat it.

Well that's just unsanitary.

I believe it's meaningful, sure. Just not equal.

As I said before, it really is the circle of life. Everyone dies somehow. We all become food for something. Whether that be microscopic or larger it doesn't matter to me.

In fact, eat me. I don't mind as long as I'm dead when it happens.

Yeah, that is pointless. Because in my last post I already told you:

I wouldn't kill someone to eat them.

For multiple reasons:

1) It's illegal.

2) I would be difficult and messy. Humans fight back, animals are easier to kill humanely.

3) There are plenty of people who die in car crashes and whatnot else to go around. I wouldn't need to kill someone to get my hand on a bit of meat.

I'm sorry for being rude, but it's frustrating when uneducated people try to assume they know everything.

No, it's not typical. But, as I said before, if people ate less meat and took an interest in where their meat comes from it could become typical. Which I do. I only buy meat when I know where it comes from. In fact I usually only eat fish from the local market where I can see the boat it was brought in on and know the fishermen.

But if all animals were raised and killed humanely, I bet you would still have a problem with it. Because you don't agree that Humans and animals aren't equal. That's fine. But that's delusional.

To be called a "bullshitting, angry little girl" is not why I'm here. That's enough.

I'm not trying to hurt your feelings or scare you or whatever, and I'm sorry that a went to that level. I'm just trying to shock some sense into you. It's not a perfect world and humans and animals aren't equal. If you want to spend your time trying to change something so widely accepted, fine. But you wont win. People like meat, they crave it.

But that website is the bullshit. The creators probably have good intentions, but they know the have to exaggerate to make a point, and that's what they've done. It's bullshit.

What is a difference of opinions? The Scientific Fact hat Humans are Omnivores?

Because it's illegal. I've actually always wanted to try human. I wouldn't kill someone to eat them. But if someone died, why not?

After death, it's just a body. Just a lifeless pile of flesh. I assume that nutritionally, human meat would be fantastic like wild deer. I'd love to try a really well toned person's thigh. Maybe with an '07 Chardonnay.

I guess that's why I nibble on the gym rat boys I sleep with.

That is bullshit. I fought against factory farming for my entire middle school and high school career, when I was your age. I visited factory farms, and free range farms both. I grew up raising goats and chickens of my own, and named them all.

There is a difference between Free Range and Factory Farmed animals. And you're just a bullshitting, angry little girl if you let a fear-mongering website like that sway you.

Animals are not equal to humans. That is a foolish statement. Sure, animals love and care for each other. Animals feel pain and heartbreak. But animals are not humans.

That's my opinion. I'm sorry you're not on the same page as me. Better start reading.

Destructive is an opinion. Every issue should be debated separately if you're going to use that argument.

How do you know? Have you ever tried to talk to a plant? Maybe they are suffering in silence when you rip them from their roots and throw them in a basket like holocaust victims thrown into pits.